[originaltext]M: How did you like our American History class yesterday? W: Well

M: How did you like our American History class yesterday? W: Well, I did enjoy it, but I didn’t exactly buy everything Barnum said either.
M: You mean his view that the early framers of the constitution really didn’t want democracy as we know it today?
W: Well "as we know it today" I can accept. But when he states that there was no affinity towards democracy as it was understood then well... to me this just sounds like historical revisionism.
M: Well, surely you have to admit that their concept of democracy was not "democratic". After all, many groups including those without land, women, blacks and many others were shut out of participating in the new system.
W: Yes, but when we look at what we call democracy today there are still groups shut out of being able to vote in America, such as children and convicted people. Also, I think it is fair to say that many groups find it still very difficult to participate. So we don’t have complete democracy even today.
M: Yes, but I think he is basing his arguments on the factual transcripts of the early Founding Fathers realizing that they didn’t like to use the term "democracy" and some even heaped scorn on it.
W: Perhaps it was just that the term had a different meaning from the way it is used today.
M: But I think it is fair to say that democracy wasn’t exactly in fashion. And perhaps it is worthwhile to draw a distinction between liberty and democracy, since the relationship between the two is somewhat blurry.
W: But if you are to say that America was not a democracy in the beginning then you might as well say it is not one today either because the structures of federalism, 3 branch government and checks and balances are basically the same as it was over 200 years ago.
M: You may have a point there, most of the constitution remains intact, mid despite the fact that America is much closer to a true democracy than it was even 50 years ago, it’s still a fair way from being ideal.
W: Right, and if you apply the democracy to an ideal you will get nowhere. I wish Barnum was listening to us right now.
M: Well, here’s your chance to challenge him right now. I see him coming our way.
W: Are you joking? I still need to get a decent mark in this course and I’m not doing it by making him angry.